California, Massachusetts and Iowa have passed laws aiming to prevent their residents from using the Montana loophole. I found this line of thoughts, decided that our daughter should read it and save it. I have researched state vehicle registration vs. Montana LLC and the like for a while now and have discovered articles on out of state registration enforcement . They left Livingston, Texas, in their Montana-licensed RV, towing their Texas-licensed Jeep. Also, have you heard any war stories about California cracking down on Montana plates? They may see no ethical dilemma. Wow, way out of our league, but worth the time. (Sorry, Hawaii residents!). ESPECIALLY on a supercar. But be aware that hat local revenue officials and law enforcement are walking through car shows with cameras, looking for cars with Montana tags. Its parked in Oregon. Or over time. Yes!!!! How To Insure a Car with a Rebuilt or Salvage Title, South Dakota Residency for Full-Time RVers. As a lawyer advising people about establishing domicile in Texas, I can guarantee that the best way to disprove your claim of Texas domicile is to spend too little time in the state. Id have to agree that in California I have seen cops pull you over for those plates and with the emission and loud exhaust being a big deal. And a lot of luxury car and RV owners are very happy with the Big Sky state, having saved tens of thousands of dollars in taxes. You pay no sales or use tax and then bring your car to whatever state you live in and drive the vehicle with tax-free impunity. Some critics note they have set up tip-lines with rewards for people who spot RVs with Montana plates parked in storage yards or driveways for long periods of time. The value up to 100 percent can be written off immediately. How didthathappen?. I would suspect most people who do this fudge here and there when it comes to their home state. As one Montana lawyer in the LLC-creating business explained (in response to questions about the validity of the Montana plates where the owners are Texas domiciled): The best approach for a Texas resident operating a vehicle owned by a Montana LLC is to limit his/her time in Texas.. Is there a loophole for those who do Montana LLC RV Titling? States tax us to death!!! Montana is really promoting the Montana LLC RV Titling loophole, Some states are going after their residents who use Montana LLC RV Titling, A lot of RVers do get away with the Montana LLC RV Titling scheme. International Accounting Standards Board : Well, to me this is all a most creative shell game between the individual taxpayer vs. individual regional entities (states) each are running their own affairs and trying to keep their coffers full enough to support their overhead (programs, roads, wages for their institutions and beurocracies, etc etc). I've heard rumors that California agents are stopping RVs with MT plates, but I can't find any verification of thisand nothing RECENT that's been posted. Drove it to Ca where we live. Wonder why? Usually it is a cheater that got tagged for their avoiding what is rightfully owed to a state. And what additional fees and taxes are in Delaware? Have you considered that the money grab by the states isnt exactly moral? In a deliberate break with their home state of California, they sold their property and bought an RV. I have a feeling u/Doug-DeMuro will be satisfied to know that he registered his Ford GT properly(Context). The tax structures between the two states are very different. Put yourself in the Trooper/Officer's shoes for a moment: You are assigned to a CA checkpoint, you see a high-dollar RV roll up, you see the Montana plates, the driver hands you a CA license and a registration for a Montana business entity. One is a result of the way the business works, the other is tax evasion. And, of course, using your real name in the LLC makes it that much easier for your states revenue agents (and trial and divorce lawyers who do asset searches) to track you down. document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Location: 62nd Escapade - Tucson , AZ Information This special pre-Escapade program offers all the acclaimed Boot Camp training seminars, plus some extras! We even include inside tips on how to negotiate with your RV dealer. That way taxes would be paid in the high tax state but at greatly reduced rates. Posts: 25,765. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more! Corporation buys the vehicle. You need an attorney in California, not Montana, it is in California you (or he) have/has to appear in court. So, if you truly want to leave your cares behind when you choose the full-time RV lifestyle, I recommend staying informed and remain certain that you are following the proper procedures to avoid future legal problems. Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. October 19, 2016at3:24 am, hailey parker said: Fantastic analysis ! Ed Bolian's Response Video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw2B9spZjrIThe Jalopnik Article:https://jalopnik.com/georgia-is-cracking-down-on-instagram-bros-re. Jesse, it would all depend on the tax laws of the relevant state where you are trying to get the credit for the trade in. Join Date: Apr 2012. Sure, that 200-acre ranch property costs a cool $2 million. Oregon has also enter the tax battle as they substantially fined and shut down an agent who was creating LLC's in that state which also has no sales tax. e.g. Taxation in this country is out of control, and people are fed up with it. All vehicles inside the LLC are rated commercial - because it's a business. And theyll be sitting across the street from your house photographing you pulling in and out of your own driveway. Boot Camp will be conducted on Thursday+ Read More, Escapade is the largest, most extensive yearly gathering of all Escapees. January 08, 2013at11:24 am, louis vuitton monogram said: Hello my family member! I would definitely consider registering an LLC in MT considering my home state VLT is outrageous when youre considering buying an expensive RV and your 1st year VLT can be thousands of dollars. But these agents may not have the training or experience to ask the right questions, and get the right information on your application. Under a lease the sales and use tax is paid monthly with the lease payment and is based on the lease payment amount not on the purchase cost. And when they get to the office, they will call their buddies at the Montana Department of Motor Vehicles and the Department of State and have them pull your information from your Montana LLC filing. If you have a full time residence that is not your RV, then the downsides are many and complex. Best of all it's totally FREE! As a matter of fact, the California IFTA guide book states that RV's are not considered under that reg.Thats a 2003 edition that was sent to my next door neighbor and when he called, they reportedly told him that had been changed.!!! Instead, it was bought by a Montana company, one formed for the sole purpose of buying the RV. Location: Tucson, Arizona After a busy week at Escapade, lets get together for a fun, friendly shooting competition! The state is calling these LLC's exactly what they are, a sham to avoid taxes. For non-residents, which the Montana LLC that owns the motorhome would technically be, an exemption to the tax would be allowed provided the motorhome is purchased by a person who is not a resident of this state at the time of purchase and is brought into this state more than 90 days after the date of purchase.. Like references on using this opportunity (it isnt a loophole, its simply how the law was written to benefit wealthy people). And in some cases, theyll haul you to court, and charge you with criminal conspiracy to defraud the state. Given the creation of this MT strategy it looks like the middle class is now copying the rich in tax avoidance and flushing our country down the drain. Yes, my job is to go after them with a vengeance and I gladly do this because they are cheaters, plain and simple. Thousands of RV owners around the country do this and dozens of Montana legal firms specialize in making it happen. iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? A super car claim will get sent to a special underwriting desk for special scrutiny. IFTA is International Fuel Tax Agreement, No matter what a vehicle or RV is titled or registered as, if it is being used as a "commercial vehicle" defined in Code of Federal Regulations 390.5.. Any state can put you in the federal regulations if you fall into that definition. In Michigan, for example, owners of RVs with out-of-state plates must owners not keep their RVs in Michigan for more than 89 consecutive days. This works great in places like Kansas City. Blog The LLC in Montana is owned by a Michigan resident. Vehicle Registration. There was some issue with buying fuel for a rig that was owned by a corporation. Avoiding sales tax by using a Montana LLC is not illegal nor a scam. If your eager-beaver neighborhood agent wasnt thinking, and just added your Lambo to your personal policy, alongside your sensible minivan (hey, we dont judge! I am second owner and paid 13% tax Have registered to vote etc. January 29, 2017at1:26 pm, gaiusgracchus said: First of all, what are states doing taxing full time RVers anyway for buying a home? Locations California wants us to report our neighbors for registration violations, smoking violations, burning wood on no burn days and excess water usage. We are sure to be in SD at least once a yes or more often-we have family on both sides. The couple read that if you claim Texas as your domicile, you wont have to pay income tax. Does Car Insurance Cover Catalytic Converter Theft. Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1. Scholarship Opportunity Another good reason I moved from CA. Any comments ? Stick to things useful, helpful, and informative. Your email address will not be published. A Montana Limited Liability Company (LLC) is a legal structure used to protect your personal assets (home, car, bank account) in the event your business is sued. Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2. Its tough being a minority here. Naturally, they caution the RV owner to keep detailed records that establish the motorhomes whereabouts. The carriers we work with at Select Insurance Group understand this segment of the market. Or maybe you can give others some advice? They make tax collectors drool. And some states are already cracking down on people caught parking cars in their state that have Montana tags. Theyll argue that you made false statements on your application. https://jalopnik.com/the-pitfalls-of-the-montana-license-plate-scam-1711216059, (You must log in or sign up to post here. Every dime related is written off. All Montana businesses are required to have a registered agentan individual or other entity that accepts legal and state documents on behalf of your Montana LLC. Texas Forever Six Time F1 World Champ Rossa Subscribed Apr 28, 2003 64,719 Texas! For example the LLC would purchase a $250,000 motorhome and then turn around and lease it for $200 per month to a Michigan resident. I'm about to wrap things up, but I was wondering if any of you have had any experience with this idea. This bi-weekly newsletter is full of everything you want to know. Press J to jump to the feed. There are special rules for writing off expenses. for having his RV titled as an LLC in Montana! The state is now cracking down on these . Even if you win, you lose. but not tax evasion illegal since FL does not charge a property tax. For example, Louisiana slaps a 9% tax on vehicle sales. She owns the LLC and the toad, so if shes properly insured, the only issue is her speeding. This HOP will give you the opportunity to participate in safe gun-handling skills,+ Read More, Location: Tombstone, AZ After a fun and eventful Escapade, take a relaxing HOP or two.Let us do the driving; sit back, relax, and enjoy!Board a luxury motor coach with a+ Read More, Copyright 2021 Escapees, Inc. All rights reserved. California is aggressively going after both kinds of people now. Hours of Operation. Franchise Opportunity Also, be careful driving your RV with Montana tags while towing your car with California tags in California with a California drivers license. Discussion in 'California (Southern)' started by Texas Forever, Feb 13, 2011. We were within our rights to keep MI and not change everything to CA. Having a "Montana Attorney" will do you no good if that Attorney is not licensed in California and familiar with California law. Plus it was is tax evation and you may o r may not get caught. All rights reserved. That way I'll have a chance that it'll get lost. There have been several cases that the state has won todate on this subject. Sidestepping Sales Tax on Large Vehicles Updated November 5, 2020: K. Susie Adams has been a lawyer for over 30 years, spending 15 of those years working as a trial lawyer. the whole thing, for reference. I think that the MT LCC is a bad idea for most. Using a Montana law firm, they created a limited liability corporation (LLC) in Montana for one purpose: to house their RV so they wouldnt have to pay sales tax. With that address, proof of vehicle insurance and an inspection of the towed Jeep, they headed to the county tax assessor-collector to register their vehicles. I dont criticize them for their decision. Resources mentioned in this video: Catch more great investing & business tips on our YouTube channel The next thing she knew, she was being pulled over by a local DPS trooper. So business buys it (its registered and delivered to Hillsboro Oregon) and then leases it back to themselves or a management/charter company. Lots of carriers will take your premium, sure. Hi: Looks as if California has found a way to make up some of the money certain RVers have been trying to cheat them out of. And then title their newly-purchased vehicle in the Montana LLCs name. They are bureaucrats and they focus on everything. Policymakers . Which gives them the right to deny your claim, flat-out. Unlike the mass market insurance companies, our carriers know the deal, and our agents know the right questions to ask to make sure youre getting the insurance protection you need. In fact, since you plan to travel extensively throughout the country, to firmly establish Texas as your home, you need to follow what I call the Ten Commandments of Domicile (in this order): The reason the Washington DPS officer suspected a problem was because of the discrepancy between Texas plates, Texas driver licenses and that Montana plate on the RV. I loved the specifics Does someone know where I could possibly grab a template FL HSMV 85008 form to use ? Hi Steve. ), you could have a big problem: The underwriters and attorneys reviewing your claim will immediately notice theres a disconnect between the name on the policy and the ownership of the vehicle. And hey, Its not like that money is going to the kids detailing the car on the lot, anyway. We have a MH with MT plates and are SD residents, but in most years the MH isn't even in SD for a day and when it is it is only there for a week or two. Of course WA looked like FL after the King County voting mess last year. First, be careful trying the Montana LLC technique to save taxes on an RV. Heres a link to said video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebDF-C7GJec. An LLC is an asset protection entity that has no tax standing. We are Reddit's central hub for vehicle-related discussion including industry news, reviews, projects, videos, DIY guides, stories, and more. Insurance Ludwig They stay in one place for weeks, months, or years at a time. From 20112016, she was executive director of Childrenz Haven, the Child Advocacy Center of Polk County, Texas. If youre buying a $400,000 Bentley, that means youre going to have to fork over the sales price of the car,plus $36,000in sales taxes. Yet the get PO Boxes and list mailing addresses that end up being a Mail Boxes Ecetera. I do not remember the thread that well since it does not apply to me but I believe that was the topic of it. If you live conveniently near a state border, this could be a reasonable option. Ready for a quote? That's $36,000 that stays in your pocket. February 27, 2021at5:23 am, John Koenig said: MI Attourney Steve Lehto covers this topic in detail on his YouTube channel. It's a $750 value, and you'll walk away with a custom tax reduction plan designed specifically for you. That means, in effect, I own the RV with Montana plates. I pay the sales tax in California on my cars I register in Montana. The state of Montana will not issue one as they do not consider an RV to be a commercial vehicle. All rights reserved. It's a never ending crackdown, if a driver is stopped with out of state plates registered to their name with an address out of state and holds a California drivers license, they are DEAD MEAT! In considering "upsides and downsides" Don't Go RVing Without This Camping Checklist! So not everyone with plates from another state for awhile is breaking the law. Almost all states require registration of vehicles in that state if the vehicle is "garaged" in that state. So, what has been happening is that the high tax states that do impose use and sales taxes and high registration fees on RVs have been taking aggresive steps to counter the scheme by writing laws and regulations that make it very difficult to take advantage of the plan. LLC's are shams for avoiding state sales tax. For about 2 years we were quite legal with having MI plates on the vehicles while we were in CA. With specific questions like yours, we recommend you reach out to legal counsel directly so all factors can be considered in the discussion. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Make Sure You're Prepared for Your Texas Driver's License! The business income, sales tax, etc is to be paid in Arizona. But thats still a drop in the bucket compared to the potential immediate tax savings you can get by registering high-value cars, trucks, busses, and RVs in Montana. Officer Josh Waites explains what prompted their. Why don't you talk to the guys in Montana that are actually doing this. When asked by the office clerk if their Jeep was their only vehicle, they answered, yes, because technically the RV belonged to the Montana LLC. To add to your article and I feel correct decision1) when any of the LLC creating law firms are asked for an opinion of its legality they make none and send you a copy of your present state law re who is required to have plates in that state 2) as an insurance agent for many years I also have serious issues of using a personal Auto Policy to cover a vehicle that is a commercial enterprise. I do not remember the thread but you should be able to find it. However, here is how I would approach it from a logical (but not necessarily relevant) standpoint. Another technique is to use your Montana LLC for a bona fide business purpose. I doubt that this is really the case, since your LLC owns the vehicle does not make it a commercial use vehicle. FerrariChat.com has no association with Ferrari S.p.A. 2023 FerrariChat. You might want to search for that thread and read up on it. As far as sales and use taxes on an RV, many states have two provisions one for non-residents, one for residents. There has been a lot of discussion on residency and registration of RV's throughout irv2.com. The hassle of always looking over my shoulder just isnt worth the tax savings. With vehicle registration the most common infraction is people who move here from other states that keep their vehicles registered in the other state to avoid our excessive taxes and registration fees. Whats more, you dont even have to be a Montana resident to do it! Nobody else needs to hear it. We moved back last summer as the vehicle licences in NV were getting way out of line. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, '15 Camaro SS 1LE | Colorado ZR2 | 2 Supermotos, Carrera GT, 05 Ford GT, G500 Cabrio, LR Defenders. Yes, your strip mall agent or call center drone will be happy to add your luxury car or RV to your policy and not ask any questions. Phil & Evy Somsen I need to say here that a great many RVers have taken advantage of the Montana law with no issues. It doesn't pay to cheat the tax man. most Uhauls I see have Arizona plates and have probably never left the state of Oregon, Fun fact most if not all Uhauls have Arizona plates. I don't cheat on these things but will be d@@med if I report someone. Visited a lot of states, haven't camped in manyyet. The downsides to a Montana LLC are few if you are a full timer. I am trying to research the possibility of forming an LLC in Montana and purchasing and insuring my new motorhome through a Montana LLC. They want their money. Think Health Care is expensive now??? Absolutely. Theyre expensive. If so it would be boilerplate with no changes.